Was Paul Pre-Trib?

When Paul said, “we who are alive and remain until the coming (parousia) of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep,” he uses the word parousia meaning “coming,” “arrival,” or “presence.” There is no reason why they would not be thinking that this is the second coming in glory after the tribulation.

Q. Mr. Kelley, are you saying “the group in Heaven that the Lord sends His angels to gather up in Matt 24:31 has to include resurrected and raptured church age believers.”? Are you saying that the gathering in Matt 24:31 is from heaven?

Also, I believed the pre-trib position for years but I changed my view when I preached through 1 Thessalonians. I have to agree with Thomas R. Schreiner in his excellent book on Paul’s theology. He writes concerning 1 Thess. 4:13-18: There is nothing in this passage about a pretribulation rapture. When Paul said, “we who are alive and remain until the coming (parousia) of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep,” he uses the word parousia meaning “coming,” “arrival,” or “presence.” There is no reason why they would not be thinking that this is the second coming in glory after the tribulation.

A. To answer your first question, yes I am. The passage in Matthew clearly refers to the elect in Heaven. Some versions translate heaven as sky, but that doesn’t make any sense to me. When are the elect scattered all over the sky? Mark’s rendering includes people on earth indicating that there will be tribulation believers on earth who will be gathered for this event as well. (Mark 13:27) My point is that if He’s gathering his elect from heaven to join him for his coming, means that they had to have arrived there some time previously.

And yes, 1 Thes.4:13-18 while introducing the rapture doctrine doesn’t indicate pre or post trib. You have to infer it’s timing from other passages like 1 Thes. 1:9 and 5:9, 2 Thes. 2 Rev 3:10, Isaiah 26:19-21. I don’t think it can be the 2nd coming because Jesus doesn’t come to earth in a visible return in glory but draws us up to be with Him in the Air in fulfillment of John 14:1-3.

Also to me, 2nd Thessalonians 2 doesn’t make any sense unless Paul had taught them about a pre trib rapture of the Church. The forged letter wouldn’t have upset them if it was informing them that they had missed the 2nd coming. They knew that it was an event that every eye would behold, that no one could miss and would have dismissed it as a fraud. Same with a post trib rapture because the 2nd Coming follows it immediately.

But if they thought it was telling them that they’d missed the pre-trib rapture, they’d have been scared to death for two reasons. First it would mean that they were about to experience the worst period of judgment ever to come on the world. And more importantly, it would mean that they weren’t saved and didn’t know how to become so.