A. I think the language of 1 Samuel 28 makes it clear that the witch of Endor really did summon Samuel up from Sheol, the abode of the dead.  Not that Samuel was resurrected mind you, but that he appeared as an apparition to the witch.  Remember Saul couldn’t see him. He had to ask the witch to describe Samuel. From that point on Saul and Samuel had a conversation through the witch, who was acting as a medium. I believe the Lord permitted this to happen to advise Saul of his fate, the result of his ongoing disobedience to the Lord.  His final act of disobedience, consulting a medium in violation of Deut. 18:10-11, resulted in the announcement of his death.

Before the cross, no one who died went to heaven.  Instead they went to Sheol to await the Lord’s sacrifice, which would open Heaven to all who had died in faith.  But I don’t believe Saul was saved, if that’s what you mean. 1 Samuel 16:14 says that the Holy spirit had departed from Saul and that the Lord had sent an evil spirit to torment him.

A. Part of the problem with thinking ahead is that we only have our Earthly perspectives with which to frame our thoughts. When Paul described the resurrection in terms of a tiny brown seed becoming a beautiful plant or flower in 1 Cor. 15, he was verbalizing that difficulty. We know from the picture on the packet what the seed will grow into, but we would never be able to predict it by merely looking at the seed.

It’s the same with us. We only see ourselves as the seed, it’s all we know. To many, especially the young, our Earthly future can look pretty good, full of adventure and promise, and we don’t want to miss it. But God has seen the flower and already perceives us this way. And He took Paul on a little tour of the future one day to give him a taste of what it will be like. While Paul said he was not allowed to describe it (2 Cor. 12:4) he did say that no eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him. (1 Cor 2:9)

But think about this. We’ve been created with incredible powers of intellect and creativity, and at the rapture the constraints on those powers, imposed both by our sin nature and our Earth bound existence, will be removed as we become the perfect version of our currently imperfect selves. It’ll be like receiving the most incredible upgrade imaginable.

We’ll be able to travel at the speed of thought to any place and time in Creation, exploring the vast reaches of the universe from the instant of its inception to the very edge of its territory, satisfying every whim of our curiosity, and answering every question of our intellect. We’ll know and understand things that currently leave us hopelessly confused and will easily learn and master skills and abilities we can’t even dream about now.

Of course God will have amazing things for us to do. Otherwise why give us such ability? And as we’re doing them, we’ll recall our Earthly perspective and wonder how we could ever have dreamed so small and settled for so little.

I guess the reason I’m wondering is that we were made in God’s image with similar emotions (love,joy,sadness etc) and there must be a reason that we are drawn to certain people in life more so than others…will we recognize family and friends, husbands and wives in heaven and still have stronger feelings for those people than others, or will it be every ‘believer’ for themselves – our earthly relationships diminished and a new ‘family’ developed with our fellow believers?

Sorry if I’m getting a bit carried away…I hope I’m not being too confusing – I’ve just been wondering about it that’s all! I don’t expect that you’ll have all the answers but any perspective you have on this would be much appreciated Thanks – keep up the good work…you’ve been a great inspiration!

A. The Bible doesn’t speak about these things except to say that we neither marry nor are we given in marriage, but will be like the angels. (Matt 22:29-30) I think this means that our capacity for relational love will be primarily directed toward and filled by the Lord.

Paul wrote that we will know as we are known (1 Cor 13:12) and to me that means that among other things we’ll recognize and know not only our earthly friends and family, but everyone in the family of God. While these relationships will be different I don’t think there’s any way in which they’ll be diminished. On the contrary our awareness and capacity for feeling will be heightened in our new bodies, not only by the removal of the contamination and distortion caused by sin, but also by the increased abilities our new bodies will have.

Paul also wrote that no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him. (1 Cor. 2:9) It’s beyond our comprehension.

Generally I believe our new lives will be similar to our old ones in the way a 3-D color picture is comparable to a 2-D black and white. The objects are recognizable as being the same, but that’s about it. No one will miss “the good old days.” In fact, according to Isaiah 65:17 the former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

If this is what you mean, then the answer would be yes. But I don’t think He can simply go back to the way He was before He became a man anytime he wants. When we receive our resurrection bodies, we’ll have the capabilities He demonstrated,  (1 John 3:2)  but that doesn’t mean we’ll be just like God.

A. We know from the Bible that demons seek embodiment.  That’s why they were willing to go into the herd of pigs when Jesus commanded them to leave the man in the Gerasenes (Mark 5:11-13).  And until recent times the mentally ill were considered to be demon possessed.  The Catholic Church still practices exorcism, and Pentecostals cast out demons in Jesus’ name.  All this tells us that demons can only appear as humans if they indwell us.  Unlike angels they can’t take on human form at will. Many believe that ghosts are demons because the Bible says that the spirits of dead humans are either in heaven with the Lord (believers) or in hell awaiting the final judgment. (unbelievers)  Contrary to some recent movies, they aren’t free to wander around.

Q. When we are raised (or raptured) and given the perfect bodies, will we be able to sin? Will we have the capacity for it or even the conception of it? Or even temptation? Thank you so much for answering questions, and may God bless you a thousand times!

A. At the rapture, we’ll be given perfected bodies along with those who are resurrected at the same time. (1 Cor. 15:53) Among other things, that means our sin nature will be removed. I don’t know if we’ll actually be unable to sin or not, but our desire to sin will be gone. Since we’ll know as we’re known (1 Cor. 13:12), we’ll be aware of sin, and since there’ll still be sinners in the world we visit, I guess the opportunity to sin will still be there. We just won’t have a desire to sin because we’ll see it just as God does, and its allure will be gone.

Table of contents for Saved From the Worst

1. Saved From The Worst But Kept From The Best?
2. Who Are The Overcomers?
3. Understanding The Olivet Discourse Parables
4. Understanding The Olivet Discourse Parables Part 2

A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

A few weeks ago I received several questions concerning a book recently published by a well known Christian author. The questions so concerned me that I bought the book to have a look for myself. (I’m not going to mention the name of the book or the author to avoid giving either any unintended publicity.)

Right off the bat I was shocked to read to very first sentence in the foreword, which says, “I believe that most Christians who get to heaven will be seriously disappointed.” Well, that got my attention. Imagine our Blessed Assurance being the source of serious disappointment.

The basic premise of the book is that while salvation is enough to keep you out of Hell, it’s not enough to get you into the Kingdom. Only those found worthy will become the Lord’s bride, and the rest of the Church will spend the Millennium in “the outer darkness” banished from the presence of God and disqualified from reigning with Him. In the Outer Darkness, says the author, believers will experience unimaginable regret, remorse and a sense of shame during the 1,000 years they’ll spend looking back over their unsanctified lives. They’ll remember every detail of their failures causing much weeping and gnashing of teeth. (According to recent surveys, this could be the destiny of as many as 93% of all born again Christians alive in the US today. There are no estimates available for previous generations, or for those from other countries.)

This view is not new, by the way. It’s been around for a generation or so, and is based largely on Matthew 8:11-12, 22:13, 24:50-51, & 25:30, the four places where either the Outer Darkness, or weeping and gnashing of teeth, or both are mentioned. Toward the and of the book the author refers to them saying, “Always remember the ones who were not able to inherit” and, “These passages are all talking about Christians! And yet none of them inherited the Kingdom. Yes, they were all in it. But they were in some other region, some other place -the darkness outside – and thus separated from the light of the Lord’s presence.”

As do the ones before it, this book makes it clear that all true believers are still saved and still go to Heaven, but because they did not follow Christ faithfully on Earth they will dwell in a part of Heaven away from Him and forfeit any rewards of reigning with Him in His Kingdom. It’s a middle position that was originally developed to refute the idea that you can lose your salvation, without giving believers who don’t live victorious lives a “free pass” into the Kingdom. I think of it as a kind of “half way house”, not prison but not really freedom either.

I’m convinced that those who hold this position have misinterpreted all four of the “outer darkness” passages. Here’s how I think these four references to the Outer Darkness should be understood.

Outer Darkness Reference 1. Matt. 8:5-12.

When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed and in terrible suffering.”

Jesus said to him, “I will go and heal him.”

The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, “I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Here Jesus is clearly speaking to Israel, not the Church. It was at least two years before Pentecost and well before Israel had rejected His offer of the Kingdom. He was criticizing them for letting a Gentile Roman soldier demonstrate a stronger faith in Him than they had. He said that their lack of faith would result in people from all over the world (Gentiles) inheriting the Kingdom, while the Jews, who were the subjects of the Kingdom, would be thrown into the outer darkness.

Israel was then (and will be again) God’s Kingdom on Earth. The Lord repeated this warning in Matt. 21:43 when He again said to the Jews, “Therefore I tell you that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.” It’s obvious that the Lord believed they were the subjects of the Kingdom or else why would He threaten to take it away from them?

This reference is a warning to Israel that at the End of the Age Gentile believers, like the Centurion, would join their patriarchs at the Wedding Feast while they sat outside in the darkness for failing to recognize their Messiah.

Outer Darkness Reference 2. Matt 22:1-14

Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

“Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

“But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

“Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests. “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.

“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

This is the parable of the Wedding Banquet, and the one ejected is a last minute wedding guest. The Bride is not a guest and could never be thrown out of her own wedding.

To accept the author’s view that this parable is about the Church you have to start with the belief that some of the Church is the Bride of Christ and some isn’t. But the Bible never even implies that. You can only come to that conclusion by departing from a literal interpretation if Scripture to make it say what you want it to say.

For example the Lord has imputed our righteousness to us by faith, and not works (Romans 4:5) Isaiah described man’s righteousness as filthy rags (Isa 64:6) and the Lord’s as “garments of salvation” and “robes of righteousness” (Isa 61:10) where the acquisition of these qualities is likened to clothing given us at a wedding. But the author wants us to believe that there’s a difference between Salvation Righteousness, which comes from belief, and Kingdom Righteousness that comes from the works we do on Earth. Therefore the guest was a born again believer who was not only excluded from being the bride but was thrown out of the banquet into the outer darkness because he had no Kingdom Righteousness.

Here’s how I see it. In Rev. 16:15, just after the 6th Bowl judgment and long after the church has departed, the Lord said, “Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

He was alluding to the fact that the Doctrine of Eternal Security expires with the Rapture, a fact that Jesus taught in the Parable of the 10 Virgins. Tribulation believers will be responsible for keeping themselves saved. Still, their righteousness is symbolized by clothing.

The man ejected from the banquet was a last minute guest, a tribulation believer not part of the Church. He was trying to receive the blessing of those invited to the wedding feast (Rev. 19:9) at least 7 years after the Rapture. He hadn’t kept himself pure and had lost his salvation. When the Lord returned, he tried to gain entrance into the Kingdom in his own clothing (on the strength of his own righteousness) without the righteousness imputed to him by faith (the wedding clothes). He was discovered and ejected.

Notice that the Bride is never mentioned in this parable. It’s not about us. It’s about the guests at the end of the age.

Outer Darkness References 3-4. Matt. 24:50-51 And Matt. 25:30

Matt. 24:50-51 concludes the parable of the wise and wicked servants, and Matt. 25:30 does the same for the Parable of the Talents. I’ll mention them together because they both contain judgments, but they don’t take place in Heaven at the Bema Seat where the Church will be judged. Along with the Parable of the 10 Virgins which they bracket, the location and timing of the judgment is identified as being on Earth after the Lord’s return. This was established as early as Matt. 24:29-30 making every thing that follows pertain to believers on Earth at the 2nd Coming. In other words, these parables describe the destinies of Tribulation Survivors who didn’t keep the faith. Again, they don’t involve the Church. You can easily confirm this by looking at Matt. 24:36-37, Matt. 25:1, & Matt. 25:14. As I said before, the Doctrine of Eternal Security expires at the Rapture, and so Tribulation believers are in danger of falling away and losing their salvation. (Rev. 14:12 & 16:15) These passages in Matthew demonstrate that fact in no uncertain terms. The Lord’s final Olivet Discourse teaching, the Sheep and Goat Judgment, which also takes place on Earth after the 2nd Coming, closes His case on the disposition of Tribulation Survivors. (Matt. 25:31-36)

To apply any of these teachings to the Church, one would have to believe that the Rapture and Bema Seat judgment take place after the 2nd Coming, but a detailed color chart in the book clearly shows that the author believes in a pre-Tribulation Rapture which is followed immediately by the Bema Seat judgment.

All that said, I think the biggest problems with this “half way house” view concern certainty and motivation. To accept this position you have to be willing to believe that the Lord is not going to give you any assurance about how you’ll spend the next 1000 years until after it’s too late for you to do anything about it. For example, in the author’s take on the Parable of the Wedding Banquet, the guest thought he belonged there and was speechless when told that he didn’t.

And 1 Cor. 4:5 says the Lord will judge the Church according to the motives of our hearts. How could our motives ever be pure if we know that our works here will determine our participation in the Kingdom? Our hearts are incurably wicked and will always go to self interest. Greed would replace gratitude in every believer’s heart and make it even less likely that anyone would survive the judgment intact.

In Ephesians 1:13-14 and 2 Cor 1:21-22 Paul said that our inheritance was guaranteed the moment we first believed. Was the inheritance he spoke of 1000 years of unimaginable regret, remorse and a sense of shame unless we work to improve it? Is that what we’re assured of?

I have no problem with there being a certain amount of inequality in the Kingdom. Not every one can live next door to Jesus, or be the king of some country or even the leader of a small group. And although the Bible clearly admonishes us to go beyond salvation to achieve victory over this world, there’ll be many who won’t win the crowns that are promised to believers for doing so. But to say that most of us won’t even participate in the Kingdom Age, but will be consigned to 1000 years of abject misery defies reason. How does that equate with the promise that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life? (John 3:16) Who would want such a life, even if it only lasted 1000 years?

Through out the history of the Church scholars have held that there are two possible destinies for humanity, Heaven or Hell. To introduce a third one, where we’re saved from the worst but kept from the best, after the fate of all but one generation of believers has been sealed, is remarkable to say the least. And I must confess I’d give a lot more credence to this view if there wasn’t such a complete disregard for context and timing in providing supporting verses. That tells me that there aren’t any that really fit. And that makes it bad theology. Selah 08-02-08

But the human nature in us all makes us so curious. I was of the mind that there would be different punishments merited out in hell along with the major punishment of separation.

I have read that once we are with the LORD and he puts the refining fire to our works what is left will show what position of authority we would have in his kingdom. The author put it that once saved always saved but we all will be doing different things when we are in the kingdom.

He was always talking vaguely of the different amounts of rewards (treasures) that each person would build up in heaven.

That got me thinking that if a person is to have eternal punishment then there would be different levels of that punishment, just as eternal life has different levels of rewards.

A. The general idea concerning the eternal destinies of both saved and unsaved is outlined in the Bible. Rewards for believers and punishment for unbelievers are both clearly intended. But when it gets to specifics, that’s a different matter. Ideas like punishment to fit the crime for unbelievers, and a believer’s relative station or position of authority are purely conjecture on our part. But this one thing is clear. There is no promise that either an unbeliever’s regret or a believer’s joy will be mitigated in any way because of their behavior, good or bad, here on Earth.

“And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” (Isaiah 66:24)

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)

Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (Matt. 25:41,46)

If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:15)

For most of the Church’s existence the belief that punishment for unbelievers is eternal was taken for granted. The above verses, especially the one in Isaiah, were the basis for what’s become known as the traditional view.

But then an alternative, called the conditional view, came on the scene. This view is based primarily on Rev. 20:12 which says that the unsaved dead will be judged according to their works. Proponents of the conditional view interpret this verse to mean that while no unbeliever can go to heaven, their punishment will be based on the quality of their lives while on Earth. Those who’ve led meritorious lives on earth will receive less severe punishment for a shorter period of time than say a Hitler or Stalin before being destroyed altogether. They claim that this view makes more sense because it shows God to be fair, making the punishment fit the crime so to speak, before mercifully ending their existence altogether.

On the surface it seems to make sense and some people are more comfortable with this view than the traditional one that appears excessively harsh to them and of no purpose other than making people suffer. But is the conditional view the result of greater enlightenment in our understanding of Scripture or just another in a long line of attempts to re-cast God’s word into a kinder gentler document as it pertains to those who’ve rejected Him?

A closer look reveals that the conditional view is decidedly biased toward the world view of unbelievers. They look at the traditional view and say, “All I did is not believe that Jesus died for me. Other than that I tried to live a good life and I helped a fair amount of people along the way. What did I do to deserve eternal punishment?”

What they don’t realize of course is that they failed to do the only thing God requires. Since the cross, God has only asked one thing of us.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 8:28-29)

If He’s going to judge unbelievers by how they’ve done the works that He requires of them, it’ll all be over pretty quickly because without that even the good we do otherwise is considered evil in God’s sight.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt. 7:22-23)

So much for a meritorious life!

Unbelievers don’t think rejecting the Lord is a big deal because they don’t appreciate the value of the life that was sacrificed for them, and they don’t realize that their rejection of His sacrifice has eternal implications. Because of their unbelief they’re only thinking in terms of a 70-80 year lifespan, not an eternal existence.

Surprisingly, believers who adopt the conditional view make the same mistake. In saying that it makes the punishment fit the crime and gives credit for good behavior they’re only considering Earthly things, not Heavenly ones.

So let’s take a look at this from the eternal perspective and try to understand how different it is. Unlike discipline we receive from God, His punishment is not intended to help us learn something. Rather it’s the penalty we must pay for having done something. The man who is executed or given life in prison for killing someone is not being taught that it’s wrong to kill people. He’s being punished for his crime. It’s an adaptation of the Biblical injunction, a life for a life (Lev. 24:17) On Earth we’re in a physical environment so it’s a physical life for a physical life.

But a person who rejects the pardon God provided for him has in effect murdered his own soul and spirit which have eternal existence, so the punishment has to be eternal to fit the crime. Our physical bodies are only intended to serve a temporary purpose, and that’s to house the eternal part of us for a little while. Compared to our eternal existence, putting our physical existence to death is a minor infraction. This is why Jesus told His disciples not to fear those who can only kill the body, but rather fear him who can kill both body and soul (Matt. 10:28). He was talking about Satan of course, but those who reject the Lord’s pardon for their sins turn themselves over to Satan for his disposition.

Refusing to accept the Lord’s completed work on the cross as payment in full for our sins is a crime against our eternal life and therefore the only just punishment is eternal punishment.

A. 1 Cor. 13:12 says that although now we only know in part, after the resurrection we will know in full even as we are fully known. To me this includes knowing family and friends as well as believers from across the entire spectrum of time. For example, we will know the Biblical figures of old as well as we know our closest friends.